Words come from thoughts, ideas. i have had several debates with some kids at my school who have made the decision to become atheists. This is one of the more peculiar arguments Ive ever come across. . If a person is closed minded to any subject, then there is no room for debate or evaluation of evidence or beliefs. That might sound crazy. Where agnostics and atheists can freely discuss Moderator: Moderators. The two men participated in a discussion about Dawkins' book on the BBC program "Re:Think," where Lord Jonathan Sacks accused . Jessica Airey February 15, 2013. In a lively debate at Theology Unleashed, neurosurgeon Michael Egnor and broadcaster Matt Dillahunty clash over the existence of God. God is the weirdo, not me. And when Im not falling asleep through such debates Im frustrated because usually both sides of the debate use large amounts of dishonesty in order to gain points rather than to gain the truth. If theyd been born in India they would have been Hindu instead. 6. Answer (1 of 94): I lost a debate to a Christian teacher when I, the avid dinosaur enthusiast, was six years old. Editors and translators work together towards one goal: to make our four websites possible - See also: Rebuttals to atheist arguments and Responding to atheists and Atheism debates The atheist Sam Harris quipped about William Lane . Christians only believe in Christianity because they were born in a Christian culture. Following are debates that Matt Slick has had with numerous opponents. Instead, one finds myths created intentionally for children, for point making, or for whatever. Christianity arose from an ancient and ignorant people who didnt have science. Liberal Christian Attempts To Debate Atheist But They Just Agree On Everything. The Fernandes-Martin Debate (1997) An ongoing Internet debate between Christian philosopher Phil Fernandes and atheist philosopher Michael Martin on the existence of God. Pravmir.ru, Neinvalid.ru, Matrony.ru and Pravmir.com. Because He wills it. 01:07:28. Nah my friend ur partly right, logic is how we reason, how we make sense of things, logos is a greek word which means " word uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea" as in jesus, when he came forth from the father! Christian apologist William Lane Craig and renowned atheist Christopher Hitchens went head-to-head in a debate over the existence of God Saturday night as thousands intently listened on at the sold-out event and via live feeds. The second part of the line is equally short-sighted. At Theology Unleashed, each gets a chance to state his case and interrogate the other. Some conversations quickly devolve into name-calling and petty insults. While it's not atheism vs Christianity, you might also like The Nye/Ham debate. When one honestly assesses the Judeo-Christian doctrine of God he will find multiple thousands of years of human testimony and religious development; he will find martyrs enduring the most horrific trauma in defense of the faith; he will find accounts in religious texts with historical and geographical corroboration; etc (these fact are of course not proofs, but rather evidences that elicit strong consideration). Atheists rely on science to explain the existence of life and the cosmos. Its weird for someone who does not believe in ultimate good and evil to condemn God as evil because He did not achieve their personal vision of good. Some atheists then shift the weight over to the theist saying, Well then who created God? What is a Christian to do but smile at such a question? This year's debate between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek was marketed as one of the greatest intellectual debates of the century. However, resources for editorial are scarce. God is not all-powerful if there is something He cannot do. Those who use this argument against Christianity simply fail to grasp what . Agnostics arent far behind, with 94 percent indicating they attend never or seldom.. Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds matter to be the fundamental substance in nature, and all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.According to philosophical materialism, mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (such as the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system), without . Debates are besides the point. He gave five main arguments to support the existence of God: 1) the cosmological argument the universe came from something rather than nothing; 2) the teleological argument the complexity in the universe presents the case for an intelligent designer; 3) the moral argument true morality comes from God; 4) the resurrection of Jesus the evidence of the resurrection has not been refuted and 5) the immediate experience of God experience as evidence for God. A God who allows so much suffering and death can be nothing but evil. I write very little in the area of Christian vs. atheist apologetics, and for good reason. To be fair, the same goes with most Christian apologists. Nothing-in-particulars are about the same size as white Catholics in the United States, and nearly as large as evangelicals of all races. If one were to say that there is no such thing as the truth, then they have just contradicted themselves by making a truth claim. And indeed, that is what we find. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. r/DebateAnAtheist is dedicated to discovering what is true, real, and useful by using debate to ascertain . If one is going to accept good and evil as realities, he is not in a position to fully reject God. Though imperfect in execution, our goal is to have mature discussions based on reason rather than rancor. Debating atheism vs theism is one of the healthiest things Christians can do on Quora. Evangelicals in America: The Stats May Surprise You. What is sufficient evidence for one person is often not sufficient evidence for another. On average, ancient people lived much closer to nature and to the realities of life and death than many of us moderners. [20] Geoffrey Burgon (1941-2010): British composer notable for his television and film themes. If everyone reading Pravmir could donate 5 euros a month, where does logic come from? How can one prove civilization by merely selecting a piece here and a piece there as sufficient proofs rather than having an experience of civilization as a whole? During the Christian Book Expo in Dallas last month, Craig and Hitchens took opposing sides in a panel examining "Does the God of Christianity Exist, and What Difference Does It Make?". And theres one other question on which nothing in particulars look different from their atheist and agnostic cousins: how important is religion in your life? SHERWOOD, OR - Local progressive believer Danielle Mason reportedly attempted to debate atheist Lucas Peterson on the various ideas including the existence of God at a local coffee shop Sunday evening, but ended up agreeing with him on every point. After all, the very word God used for his people in the Old TestamentIsraelmeans to struggle with God. Its strawman argumentation at its worst. Posts simply titled some variation of "An Honest Question" will be downvoted mercilessly. Craig, a Biola professor and one of the world's leading philosophers of religion, claimed in opening remarks that there is no good argument that atheism is true but that there are good arguments that theism is true. Community Fellowship Forums (Christians Only), (You must log in or sign up to reply here. A cup of coffee? When confronted with the charge that there is no evidence for God the Christian often does not know where to start with a rebuttal. It can be rational or irrational, but it can never be non-rational. Hitchens, part of the movement of "new atheists" or "militant atheists" who seek to eliminate religion, said he didn't have to prove God didn't exist. Debating Christianity and Religion Civil and engaging debate on Christianity and religious issues. An estimated 4,000 people packed the university's gym to watch the event while an additional 6,000 from around 120 church sites from another thirty states and four countries watched a live feed of the debate. The mission of Apologetics 315 is to provide educational resources for the defense of the Christian faith, with the goal of strengthening the faith of believers and engaging the questions and challenges of other worldviews. But nothing-in-particulars are a different story. If God had a Creator then His Creator would be God. It is found in many variations but the concept is fairly consistent and goes something like this: Science has brought us to a point where we no longer need mythology to understand the world, and any questions which remain will eventually be answered through future scientific breakthroughs. Nothing-in-particulars are clearly less allergic to a religious experience than the other nones. I would rather watch paint dry. This project will aim to serve as a reference for excellent content to help atheists illustrate their points with theists. But they don't have to be. The fact that He doesnt is no commentary on whether He could. Is Evangelical a Historical, Theological, or Political Identity? "It went good, Craig offered arguments, whereas Hitchens didn't," Stan Markowski, a Biola senior, commented, according to the Daily Titan, the student newspaper of California State University, Fullerton. This was a famous assessment of the matter by Soren Kierkegaard (dealing with the incarnation of Christ). To many's disappointment, but probably for the best, the event went off without the anticipated drama. Among the nones, theres a clear divergence between atheists, agnostics, and nothing-in-particulars. Following the logical word game above forces the believer to make a redundant proclamation in order to remain consistent: God cannot overpower Himself. But this fact is anything but confounding, it merely stresses the point that there is no power greater than God, so much so that one is forced to pit God against Himself in order to find His equal.). Take the history of the Jewish people for example. Online Debate chat room. An argument based on strict logical word games can render the idea all-powerful, or omnipotent self-defeating. Christian Professor vs Atheist Student DEBATE. This will always be remembered, as George Pell essentially confesses to his crimes before ever having been charged (skip to 48:05), and ultimately digging his own grave when discussing preparing the "young English boys" in the middle of this debate. There is so much good content of this type on the Internet, but it's easy to forget it when you're either in, or about to enter, a debate. Why does He not lie? Therefore our request for help is understandable. Let me say upfront that there is perhaps no other subject that bores me more than evolution vs. creationism debates. Dissension and bickering are problems, but open, moderated, polite debates where various points are presented, defended, and cross-examined can be helpful. God cannot lie, therefore God is not all-powerful. Post your best arguments for the supernatural, discuss why your faith is true, and tell us how your reasoning led you to a belief in the supernatural. It shouldnt come as a surprise that a huge share of atheists never step foot inside a church. But this is hardly sufficient evidence in the court of atheist opinion, a court which presupposes that only what can be apprehended by the senses rightly qualifies as evidence. . Dr. Graham Oppy of Monash University is one such formidable philosophical atheist. We are Atheists, Theists, or, Others . Some have said this isn't a real debate - but it definitely shows how idiotic presuppositionalism is. The idea is that people in general are so intellectually near-sighted that they cant see past their own upbringing, which, it would follow, would be an equally condemning commentary on atheism. as to ethics I can address dat afterwards but firstly wat is ur method? He said that it was Craig who must prove the existence of God while he can take the role of the skeptic and doubt such a being exists. Against Atheism, Christian Life If I Were An Atheist . The responses (if there are any) will demonstrate the current state of atheist vs. Christian banter. 1. Lets start by talking about who the nones actually are. listern man I didn't want 2 get into dis one up men ship, I gave the greek translation from the greek lexicon, if u wanna go against it dats fine, but lets not get side tracked. Ryan Burge is an assistant professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University. Atheist vs Christian. President Bidenalong with millions of churchgoersthinks marijuana isnt a dangerous drug. program in . . For example, 5 euros a month is it a lot or little? If you want to see a good debate, watch Ken Ham VS Bill Nye. But imagine if the only story of a messianic virgin birth, death, and resurrection were contained in the New Testament. If you're here to ask a question, put that question in the title. The blog is a place to find answers to life's questions, debate atheism vs religion and christianity and find out what science has to say about our world and the Bible. Instead, he is more in a position to wrestle with the idea that God is good. If people lack religious speculation today, maybe it is because they spend more time with their iphones and Macs then with nature. We will not discover anything that harms Christian theism by thinking logically and by looking at the evidence. On December 8, 2002, atheist Michael Newdow and Christian Cliffe Knechtle participated in "The Great Debate: Atheism vs. Christianity." The debate was held at Rolling Hills Christian Church in Sacramento, California and was broadcast live via satellite to around 1,500 churches and other Christian organizations, sponsored by Church . More than 4,000 people attended a significant debate on Friday, Feb 1 between noted Christian theologian and Biola Talbot School of Theology professor William Lane Craig and atheist philosopher Alex Rosenberg. We have a Pal Talk chat room dedicated to religious debate which is open 24/7. As an ex-Muslim, I'm so angry at other people on the left for not seeing their hypocrisy when it comes to Islam and Christianity. Nothing-in-particulars seem like an eager and accessible audience. Indeed ancient people did not have the Hubble telescope, but they were able to see the night sky in full array, something almost no modern person can claim (thanks to modern lighting which distorts our ability to see the full night sky). If one means, that which has come into existence, then surely God does not exist because God never came into existence. In comparison to some mass media, we do not make paid subscription. $13.23 13 Used from $2.65 8 New from $9.44. Starting with the idea of evidence, what exactly does one mean by evidence? Here's roughly how I remember it. Thanks for reading. Just 57 percent report no church attendance, and another quarter indicate that they seldom attend services. Avoiding overly esoteric arguments, they directly address issues such as religious experience, the Bible . But you do need to realize that if you, for example, insult Jesus our Savior, all you do is make yourself look bad, get people defensive, and make atheists, as a whole, look like obstreperous twits. we do have a small request. What baffles me at times is why would someone that has no belief in God get on a Christian forum to debate . What can I do to receive the Holy Spirit? Why Christianity is false | Atheist Christian DebateGhalib Kamal debates with a Christian about the lies in the bible. can u answer my original question. The debate was held before 8,000 people in Illinois at Willow Creek Community Church. Most people today get their ethics from their culture. If there is not a real existencean ontological realityof good and evil, then the charge that God is evil because of this or that is really to say nothing more than, I personally dont like what I see in the world and therefore a good God cannot exist. I like what C.S. "I guess I don't believe in God either, at least not in any concrete way," Mason said pensively during her allotted 15-minute response time. An Atheist Debate Reference. Christian's only believe in Christianity because they were born in a Christian culture. We have a social contract, and people who violate that contract and are caught, suffer the consequences. Even if there was a God, continued the outspoken atheist, it still wouldn't prove that this entity cared about man or answered prayers. ok, I agree with the 1st sentence, rational and intellect are 2 separate things tho! Hitchens responded by saying there is no proof that people closer to a supernatural being act better than people who are not. Theism comes from the Greek word, "theos," which means "god.". That wouldn't make sense. He had Marxist leanings during the 1940s, but later became an outspoken anti-communist and also wrote extensively on the damage to Indian culture and heritage wrought by expansionist Islam and missionary activities of Christianity. Because He wills to be honest. Even if the whole project of evolution as an account of our history was without serious objection, it would still not answer the problem of the origin of life, since the option of natural selection as an explanation is not available when considering how dead or inorganic matter becomes organic. As a Christian, on this forum, I am told that anyone that calls themselves a Christian has the right to do so. The Importance of Patiently Letting Down. 6. If Christians want to bring people back into the fold of a church community, they should try a different strategy. The Truth About Martin Luther, the Ninety-Five Theses, and the Castle Church Door. i need some help on were i can acquire the knowledge to further debate them. This argument would be fantasticdevastating maybeif God was more of the ancient Greek god persuasion, where the gods themselves were subject to fate and limited to their specific roles in the cosmos. By providing an accessible and growing repository of teaching materials, as well as providing a means of networking within . I would wager that if a common person of today found himself in a philosophical debate with a common person of first century Alexandria, the moderner would be utterly humiliated in the exchange. Hello all, I used to be an Atheist a long time ago, now I'm a Christian. Must We Forgive Those Who Sin Against Us If They Dont Repent? Whilst I have tried to write it from an non-believer's standpoint, I would appreciate any advice to improve . But in reality, such an argument winds up further solidifying what Christianity means by calling God all-powerful. Indeed, those ancient, ignorant people who believed in the virgin birth of Christ must have believed it because they did not possess the knowledge of how babies were born. Please make sure all fields are filled out. Let us say that to be Jewish, in the religious sense, is much more than a matter of cultural adherence. Peter Albert David Singer AC (born 6 July 1946) is an Australian moral philosopher, currently the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University.He specialises in applied ethics and approaches ethical issues from a secular, utilitarian perspective. actuallyserious650 8 yr. ago. A rationale is a tool of the intellect. About Community. Rules; FAQ; Last visit was: Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:39 pm; Board index. I fort it came from logic, ok where does ur logic come from? George Calciu concludes a story about a time when, imprisoned, A Typical Attack There are different ways to talk about religion and atheism. I devoted a separate article addressing this problem, but let me deal here with the problem inherent in the criticism itself. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is the belief that there is only one God. He is the author of The Nones: Where They Came From, Who They Are, And Where They Are Going (Fortress Press, 2021). We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless! Others are incredibly philosophical, showing a strong grasp of epistemology and teleology. So, the initial criticism is sound, but it is subversive to the atheists staging ground. A neurosurgeon's ten proofs for the existence of God. ok, how du know ur reasoning is valid?? However, atheists represent a relatively small portion of the American populace. SO it depends on what you believe more, science or the bible. These debates often grow heated and wind up fruitless. The intellect is the faculty of reasoning. It is not that much for a family budget, but it is a significant amount for Pravmir. Agnostics score a few points better on this metric (6 percent). When you add the A prefix in front of it, it means "without.". Obviously, no one is irredeemable, and evangelicals who embrace the Great Commission should always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you (1 Pet. There is no need for ignorant ancient myths anymore. In addition to the audience present at Purdue University in Indiana, 9,594 online viewers tuned in . (Note: Due to the immense amount of discussion that this point has raised, one clarifying statement is worth noting. In support of a Christian answer to that question I'm going to defend two basic contentions in tonight's debate. The two were surprised to find themselves in agreement on the inspiration of Scripture, the . Not so fast. They claim that they can have morality without God and that the concept of a deity is . Recall that nothing-in-particulars make up more than 20 percent of the current adult population, which means the share of this group that indicates religion is at least somewhat important is larger than the share of all the atheists or agnostics in the United States. At their best, debates between Christians a. its a valid question man or can't u answer it? Heres why theyre wrong. This argument seems insurmountable on the surface, but is really a slow-pitch across the plate (if you dont mind a baseball analogy). One would have to be seriously out of touch to believe so. They shrugged their shoulders and chose none of the above.. Let's look then at my first basic contention: there's no good evidence that atheism is true. 5. Evolution has answered the question of where we came from. However, I thought it would be fun to comment on the ten arguments I hear the most. In terms of a living relationship with these things the ancients were far more advanced than we are today, and this relationship is essentially the nature of religious inquiry. The Fernandes-Martin Debate on the Existence of God (1997) [ Index ] An Internet debate between Christian philosopher Phil Fernandes and atheist philosopher Michael Martin on the existence of God. In total, the subreddit has more than 72,000 members, and undoubtedly many more who stand on the sidelines and watch the debates unfurl. Ultimately one has to agree that God will decide that question and many who think they are will be found not to be. It is a question of faith, which is the basis or foundation for Christians or Christianity , and is one, major stumbling block for atheists, who lack said faith or belief in their Creator and/or cling to disbelief or lack "proof" or "evidence" of Him. 3. To be a Jewish believer is to have Judaism permeate ones thinking and believing and interaction with the world. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," said Hitchens, author of the New York Times bestseller God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Help Believers to Stay Faithful in a Changing Culture. The debate "Does God Exist?" Ah, but that doesnt address the fact that some of these stories were told before the Biblical accounts. But by the event's end, Craig expressed disappointment that Hitchens did not provide arguments to support his truth. There are many places on the Web where people can have unfiltered expressions of their reaction to Christianity (for or against). Thou Shalt Give Thy Post a Useful and Descriptive Title. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where . For the Christian it simply means that all power and authority are Gods. I will not delete any comments, no matter how uncivil or juvenile they become, because, for me, it is an important part of the article. They only sought an argument for the sake of an argument, therefore Jesus said "Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not . 8. Science is fantastic if you want to know what gauge wire is compatible with a 20 amp electric charge, how agriculture works, what causes disease and how to cure it, and a million other things. Pit this against tales of the Tooth Fairy, Santa, and Spaghetti Monsters and one finds the exact opposite: no testimony or religious refinement, no martyrs, no historical and geographical corroboration, etc. Logic comes from the word "logos" which means "word". Jesus warned His followers to be careful to whom they give the truth to because the enemies of the cross don't want to really debate to have Christians prove that Jesus existed or that God is real. Lewis said on a similar matter: There is no sense in talking of becoming better if better means simply what we are becomingit is like congratulating yourself on reaching your destination and defining destination as the place you have reached.. The words of Hebrews 2:18 apply to Jesus and Jesus alone. It makes sense that 95 percent of atheists say that religion is not at all important to their lives. Oxford University Press, 2003. There is no evidence for Gods existence. Many atheists will cry "logical fallacy" at this argument; however it doesn't dismiss the Christian belief system. 3:15). Peterson and iek managed to find significant common ground. Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. A Debate Between a Christian and an Atheist. On June 27, 1993, atheist Frank Zindler and Christian Dr. William Lane Craig debated "Atheism or Christianity: Where Does the Evidence Lead?" (Video and audio copies of the debate are available from Zondervan Publishing House. At publishing time, Mason had realized she was just an atheist who liked the church's social programs and sense of belonging, "just like Jesus was.". However, there is a larger portion of the population thats much more open to hearing about the good news of Jesus Christ. wat do u use 2 make sense of ur surroundings, how du receive information? But, this is a spurious claim. Godless Discord Community is a ghetto atheist debate community that switches between arguing about philosophy and fighting about petty drama between users. The group that makes up the largest portion of the nones is one most people have never heard of: nothing in particular., When presented with options to describe their religious affiliation by a survey researcher, these people didnt choose Protestant, Buddhist, or even atheist. A very active subreddit to debate and pose arguments to atheists. The Big Conversation video series from Premier Unbelievable? they would contribute greatly to our ability to spread the word of Christ, If evangelical Christians take the Great Commission seriously, is debating an atheist a good use of their time, energy, and effort? "At least, I don't think I do. 2. It was the epicenter of innovation and philosophical giants. "Mr. Hitchens seems to fail to recognize that atheism is itself a worldview, and that it claims alone to be true and all the other religions of the world false.".